The short bus rides again

Ah, this is the CARM we all know and love.

Zakuska (whom I’ve met in real life and know from years on LDS discussion forums) decided to post my article on theosis to the evangelical “Christian” cess pool that populates CARM’s Mormonism forum. The comedy is writing itself. Allow me to share with you a sampling of the insightful things the participants at CARM have deduced:

akaSeerone: If that is what he is teaching he ain’t no Christian.

Garry T: Amen Andy! He’s about as far away from Born Again Christianity as our buddy Smith was.

In the very first paragraph of my theosis article, I mention that my name is Bridget and I refer to having been pregnant, which would erase any doubts as to what gender I am for people of normal intelligence. To the extra-dumb denizens of CARM though? Apparently there are pregnant men out there named Bridget. Go figure.

Lessa4: I agree, just because she considers herself to be an “evangelical” doesn’t mean she’s actually a Christian, nor do I see anything here that suggests any legitimate study in Christian theology or Biblical studies,

What a keen observation. It’s not like my degree in classics and minor in Hebrew (which Lessa4 cites in the very next paragraph) shows that I know how to read Biblical languages, which would indicate that I have done Biblical studies. The standards at CARM for legitimate Biblical studies are very high indeed!

Lessa4: I do not see any evidence “Bridget” is a Christian

No, it’s not like I’ve posted my Christian testimony on this blog, which Lessa4 could have found when she1 clicked on my name at LDS & Evangelical Conversations. And I’m certainly not applying to Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and Multnomah Biblical Seminary or anything, and those probably aren’t “Christian” schools that conduct legitimate Christian theology and Bible studies by Lessa4′s standards anyways.

I also admire how Lessa4 keeps putting my name in quotation marks. Does she think that’s a fake name or something? You never know, I could just be an elaborate Internet Mormon sock puppet controlled by the Danites themselves!

Lessa4: This Briget appears to be a Mormon who is evangelizing Mormonism.

Ugh. I could never be Mormon. I like my current underwear too much, and my husband concurs!

Garry T: How about beware of Mormons in evangelical clothing. Some Mormon liar is getting a chuckle out of his “mastery” of falsehood!

I’m not sure whom Garry T is referring to, but right here there’s a pretty honest evangelical Christian woman getting a chuckle out of the “mastery” of stupidity coming from him and his ilk.

baptizedinChrist: Bill McKeever over at already wrote on this subject. I suggest you read the article here.

Yup, I linked to that article in my original post and said that I basically agreed with it. I guess I shouldn’t have done that though since I’m just a Mormon in sheep’s clothing trying to evangelize Mormonism. (?)

When it’s pointed out to the folks from CARM that Aaron Shafovaloff from Mormonism Research Ministry was the first person to comment on my theosis article and that he agreed with me, and obviously they aren’t going to denounce him as non-Christian, the ever-omniscient Lessa4 tries to claim that my article on theosis “embraced polytheism.” Ah, now we’ve moved into the sacred realm of “making crap up.” CBS would be proud.

Don’t tell the folks from CARM, but I was even once a moderator of the Mormonism forum there, long ago. It might make their heads explode.

What’s the point of this post? Only that Gary Novak’s first rule of anti-Mormonism still holds true today: once you become an anti-Mormon, expect your IQ to drop at least 85 points.

1 I assume that Lessa4 is female because “Lessa” sounds feminine to me. I apologize in advance if I got the gender wrong. I make no apologies for thinking s/he’s as dumb as a bag of hammers.


The short bus rides again — 37 Comments

  1. Now then, Jack, let’s please be accurate: A bag of hammers is a bag of the tools of all great and lofty civilizations. The great cathedrals of Paris and the Great Wall were not built without them. One World Trade Center cannot be erected without a hammer.

    The hammers of today are crafted (largely) from materials gathered from the four corners of the world, in supply chains and manufacturing processes that would make Charlemagne or the emperors of the Ming Dynasty swoon in wonder.

    You do that bag of hammers no justice by equating it with a closed-minded, open-mouthed tribal-oriented forum troll. It is an insult to hammers, I say!

    The metaphor *you’re* looking for is, “Box o’ rocks,” which is a suitable appellation for any mouth-breathing tribalist, or any consumer grade computer, for that matter.

    HTH. HAND. :-D

  2. The loving discussion on the CARM forum makes me long for the fellowship of those true believing Christians.

    I am sure you agree.

    If only we could just stop thinking and simply condemn all that we don’t quite understand.

  3. I’m pretty sure most of these morons did not even click on my article, let alone take the time to read it. Here’s biblos: “Your author here had done a quite nice bait and switch. claiming that western christianity runs away from a concept it has taught for over 2000 years, while at the same time claiming that mormon’s faithfully teach the real concept.”

    Um, no, actually, I stated pretty clearly that what I advocate and what Christianity has historically taught is very different from what Mormons teach. See that big, bolded sub-heading on my article that says “Traditional Theosis v. Mormon Exaltation”?

    And I never used C. S. Lewis to support what Mormons believe, I used him to support what I believe. I guess that’s a difficult distinction to understand when you’re dumb like a bag of hammers box o’ rocks and can’t read.

    EDIT: A moderator closed off the thread a few minutes ago citing Rule #10: “Please stick to the topic of the forum. Posters seeking to debate Evangelical Christians should take their discussions or questions to the appropriate forum.” Let’s hope that means somebody there was intelligent enough to see that I am in fact an evangelical Christian.

  4. That link is awesome, Katie.

    Zakuska is a guy and he’s LDS. I met him at a Sunstone gathering in Salt Lake City along with a bunch of other Zion’s Lighthouse Message Board regulars years ago. I’ve never been too into his posts though, and I’m not entirely pleased with how my article was thrown out there on CARM. He was fishing for a knee-jerk reaction from stupid children, and he knew it, and he got it.

    It is a poignant lesson in the evangelical anti-Mormon mentality though. ANYONE who says ANYTHING these people disagree with is immediately branded “non-Christian.” Not one of those people tried coming over to my blog and actually learning something about me; not one of them even read and considered my post or else they would have seen that their pal Aaron agreed with it. They saw something that challenged their way of thinking so they looked for the fastest way to dismiss me as a Mormon plant and they took it.

    And people wonder why I’m so hard on the counter-cult ministry. Oh well. I love being right.

  5. I’d compliment the post. But we all know that having a Mormon compliment or agree with you is pretty-much the Mark of the Beast over at CARM.

    Best not to jinx you, I suppose.

  6. Zakuska is a guy and he’s LDS.

    Oh, oops. My bad. I thought it was an Evangelical trying to make you look bad or something. With a name like Zakuska, I seriously wonder if he served a mission to the BG. That would be weird if I knew him…

  7. THIS post is a classic. Love it. (And it’s even more clear now than before what exactly “we’re” up against.) Bless their hearts.

  8. I’m a little disappointed that the CARMites apparently never found out about this post. I was hoping they would come over here and say even more idiotically entertaining stuff for us.

    Oh well.

  9. I disagree with Perkins. I think the proper comparison is “bag o’ dirt.” And for the record, I like your underwear just the way it is too (oops, you told me not to tell anyone about that! Sorry).

  10. Bite your tongue, MCQ! My husband reads most of the comments on this blog.

    You’re gonna get in twouble… He has a black belt in shoto-kan… and lots of swords…

  11. Your problem Bridget Jack Meyer, is that you have consistently broke rule number one of Evangelical Christians: Never show respect and talk with (unless condemning outright) Mormons. For that matter with anyone who is not Evangelical Christian. In order to properly be saved, you have to condemn everyone else.

  12. !!!

    You married a swordsman!

    My daughter is learning the effete art of fencing, to the point now where I cannot beat her at plastic Jedi Lightsaber battles. This makes her happier than she could have ever imagined.

  13. Jettboy: Actually, rule #1 for Evangelical Christians is to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and strength and rule #2 is to love your neighbor. It’s been my frequent and repeated experience that Evangelical Christians act this way toward me and others.

    It’s sad that you don’t see that; I’m not sure if that’s because you don’t want to see it (i.e., you relish seeing the bad in those who don’t agree with you), or if you just have very little experience with Evangelicals outside of limited blog conversations—which undoubtedly attract a peculiar subset of the population. Either way, you’re ironically wrong and should apologize.

  14. I was not sure whether to take Jettboy’s comment as hyperbole or not. Some Mormons honestly do seem to believe that most evangelicals spend all of their time hating other religions, though most people know that isn’t the case. CARM really is an anomaly of bad evangelical behavior.

    I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I’ll assume Jettboy’s comment was hyperbolic and he doesn’t really think evangelicals are altogether hateful and mean and I’m some kind of rare exception. The gesture is appreciated though, Brian.

  15. TBH, Jack, being treated as a weird devil worshiping heterodox hellhound was a pretty common experience for Mormons in the Northwest, where and when I was growing up.

    People are much more tolerant today, but as we saw from the Huckabee campaign, there are Evangelicals who still use those old canards to keep the Mormons marginalized.

    Not that I would have voted for Mitt past the primaries anyway (wrong stance on immigration, IMO) but there you are.

  16. Jack, you know that I give people the benefit of the doubt too. Jettboy has been on the Web long enough to know that humor doesn’t blog well; use a smiley or an “emote /” if you’re being hyperbolic. If it was sarcasm, as Rob thinks, then it is unhelpful and unwarranted. I stand by my scathing ( ;) /hyperbole) rebuke.

  17. I know. I like how they only allow people to link to official LDS web sites. God forbid people find out all the arguments at CARM have already been addressed and picked over by Jeff Lindsay and FAIR.

  18. Pingback: Seth Payne » Blog Archive » More on CARM and the Brilliant Theo1689

  19. @Bridget Jack Meyers “I know. I like how they only allow people to link to official LDS web sites. God forbid people find out all the arguments at CARM have already been addressed and picked over by Jeff Lindsay and FAIR.”

    God forbid Mormon’s stop pretending that merely arguing against an argument makes the argument right. Mormon circular reasoning never ends. It’s always: “My heart tells me I’m right and God talks through my heart and I know he’s talking through my heart because my heart is always right.” God forbid you break out of that blasphemous circle. “the heart is desperately wicked, who can know [how wicked it is]?”

    Pretense is never going to be evidence, nor, “I just know I’m right, believe me, you’ll see, you’ll be happy like us.”

  20. @Bridget Jack Meyers “I know. I like how they only allow people to link to official LDS web sites. God forbid people find out all the arguments at CARM have already been addressed and picked over by Jeff Lindsay and FAIR.”

    That’s also misleading besides a lie, because I myself have checked those websites, and they are greatly lacking, further, is CARM the only apologetics website? And speaking of apologetics: guess which cult had to learn apologetics from the “all wrong” Christians? It sure wasn’t the other way around late comer latter day “saints”.

  21. @Bridget Jack Meyers

    So, what were you saying about bashing, I mean clobbering, worshiper of Mormon, angel cultist?

    “Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.” – Colossians 2:18-19

    “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.” – Galatians 1:8-9

    And you’d remember and stop forgetting those things if your cult would stop negating God’s word with the self-defeating contradictory claim in which you negate the true word of God by claiming that it’s hopelessly imperfect because of MISTRANSLATIONS IN ENGLISH, as if you were all too stupid and mentally lazy to go learn the correct translations for yourselves, but instead need a 100 year old dead no longer modern prophet to tell you what to believe. So many contradictions, and yet none of them matter to liars till they are used to expose their lies.

    And when will your cult officials use the JST? What’s wrong: not enough CONfidence in “THEE Prophet”? Oh, I know: well we’d be asking too much of the world to abandon their Bible and accept the bizarrely repeatedly vaguely annotated THEE Prophet failed to publish as the TRUE most Correctest Versioneth of the Grammattethically King Jamesian Bibleword (oh sorry grammar is still in flux in these latter day modern times, so, my grammar is just niceth, and my neck and feeteth are naked, just above the ankles, oh and my neck and head are naked too, oh and my bossemetheth is exposeddethetheth, and I’m oh so gloriethelly whiteest, pure lily white (read “whites are the most beautiful race” oh darkie folk).

    Whateth aneth absurdeth and evileth religioneth.


    Where was FAIR and Jeff Hearsay for the last 100+ years of the “just believe us: pray and read the bom and you’ll know the truth” movement? Or: the last 2000, or whenever it was the church supposedly all disappeared, and where they or the prophets for hundreds of millions of others who didn’t even know God’s word existed? Makes the whole “God will always give us a prophet for modern times” line just a little false and pointless sounding if 99.9% of the planet doesn’t know about them, and when they’re not around period.

    Now, Remember to always address Heavenly Father as thee and thou, because, uh, well just cuz it sounds so pretty, forget that it’s distracting and pretentious and that using old English doesn’t matter at all and that TELLING THE TRUTH AND MAKING SENSE IS WHAT MATTERS. But of course: narcissists could care less about truth, but only a false appearance to take advantage of others to make themselves feel good. So keep up those conversions, makes you really high to know you’re pulling the imaginary pre-Columbian wool over the world’s eyes, getting them to affirm that your mistake is true, so that you feel better about yourself, thinking that one day everyone will be blinded like you, and then there will be no more worry of anyone seeing your sin and exposing you for it. Truth can’t be blinded, and will triumph over deception and God’s love will triumph over your lust.

  22. Wherefore are thou done clobbering the all wrong false Christians yet, oh thou late on the scene to save the world “saints”, who can’t even get a little non-living temple in Missouri to force Smith’s false prophecy true? If only.

  23. Daniel Knight ~ I am not and never have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a member of the Evangelical Covenant Church. Am I to understand that your last four rants are all directed at ECC members?

    Furthermore, if you wish to comment here, you need to consult my comment policy. You also need to check your blatant racism at the door. Referring to humans with a dark skinned phenotype as “darkie folk” is completely not acceptable.

    In #30, you said:

    That’s also misleading besides a lie, because I myself have checked those websites, and they are greatly lacking, further, is CARM the only apologetics website?

    Nonsense. Many LDS apologetics Web sites do an adequate job addressing some of the criticisms commonly circulated by anti-Mormon evangelicals. Other criticisms they don’t do an adequate job addressing.

    And of course CARM isn’t the only apologetics Web site; we’d all be sunk if that were the case. If you consult my links in the sidebar, you’ll find links to Tekton and the Christian Think-Tank, two vastly superior Christian apologetics sites.

  24. “Thee” and “thou” are not “Old English,” moron. Beowulf is written in Old English. It looks like this:

    Hwæt, we gar-de na in geardagum,
    þeodcyninga þrym gefrunon,
    hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon!

  25. I’m kind of curious whether Daniel is also going to reject the Book of Revelation, since it was delivered AFTER Paul’s epistle to the apostle John, by… wait for it -

    An angel of light!

    Those mischievous angels…

  26. Daniel, I’d like to thank you for bringing the sabre-toothed tortoise to my attention.

  27. Thank you, Daniel, for the delightful fits of laughter you have provided. I, for one, have thoroughly cherished the past several minutes. The hilarity, however, is admittedly somewhat dulled by the realization that we live in a damaged world in which vitriolic screeds of your sort can be delivered with all solemnity.

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